Yes James. And it’s the same for everyone. When the time of ones death approaches, ones angelic guardians draw closer awaiting the actual time when they will take you over the threshold and into your new spiritual life. And mostly, these angels are not seen by anyone involved, that being the people on Earth should they be witnessing the death; the person dying; or the spirits who might also be attending the death, as there will always also be numerous spirits present as well. The angels come in a different plane and so level of reality to the spirits present, unless those spirits are of a Celestial or higher level of truth, in which case, such spirits can see the angels.
Everyone has assigned to them, someone, a spirit, who will meet them upon death and introduce them into their new life, should this be what is required by their soul. So for the average person who is mostly unaware of life after death, such as Hannah’s parents were, at her death, any of her dead relatives, and dead friends might be there, along with other spirits who will take her and care for her.
The first world of spirit is, compared to how you live and experience your physical lives, a place of greater love, and so when those spirits, who are all people who have themselves once lived on earth, come to you, they will be doing so expressing such love. So the person dying has nothing to fear, and will only experience their awakening as a good experience, and often one that’s very loving.
And as in Hannah’s case, as soon as the spirit body separates from the physical connections, there is no longer any pain, this of itself as you might well imagine greatly adding to ones good experience. The dying person, be it a child or an adult, has a good experience in death, especially once the pain has gone should there be pain; it’s the people they might leave behind on Earth who don’t understand this and who are suffering feelings of loss and deep grief, that have the harder time of it.
Would for example, Hannah feel bad because she’s not with her mummy and daddy anymore.
And at the same time, as Hannah might feel bad, she is also still a child and so open to new experiences without all the judgemental beliefs and expectations of an adult. So she will naturally quickly adjust to her new life, particularly as she will be met with and surrounded by such loving spirits. No person goes into the spirit worlds simply to be left to rot. And people will only have bad experiences upon arriving in spirit, such as waking up in one of the hell planes, because of their mental state and beliefs, but no child would suffer these things because they are still only a child.
So what about all those people who are aborted one way or another before their physical births?
It’s the same for them. They will be taken to spirit nurseries to be cared for. And within those nurseries they are looked after through the remaining time of their gestation period; then are ‘born’ into spirit life; then to carry on growing up as a spirit child of the mansion worlds. Many of them, just as with unwanted physical children, are fostered out or adopted by spirits wanting to be parents, this enabling a lot of people (who are now spirits), who for one reason or another couldn’t have children on Earth, to have the experience of parenting. Even carrying the child to full term can be simulated so as to give the ‘mother’ the experience of being pregnant. The ‘father’ having his experiences as well. And of course lots of people who become spirits love being involved with children and so become spirit parents or simply involved in looking after the infants and young children of the nurseries.
Mary, in The Urantia Book it talks about a world specifically for children, a nursery world I think it says, is one provided for the Earth spirit children?
No, that applies to more normal worlds and their associated mansion world experience. The nurseries for Earth children are scattered throughout the various sectors and planes of the first mansion world. This enables children of different cultures and religions to be specifically attended to. On such normal and non-rebellious worlds The Urantia Book talks about, such cultures and societies are more blended than on your world.
And Mary, what about having an abortion, is that wrong, should we not kill unwanted people?
It’s no more wrong than everything else you do in your negative states James. As you do your healing, the pain you will feel will be the same pain you have caused another, such as the pain you’ve caused in the one you aborted, and it will be the same pain you are already causing yourself, the pain you’ve been made to suffer because of your unloving parenting. You can ONLY do to another what was done to you. You can only cause the amount of pain that was done to you, the pain that you’re still in but are keeping hidden from yourself; the pain which will come to light as you progress in your healing. It all comes from you. And I will add, that often the pain of the abortion is felt by the woman, her having to undergo the trauma of it, however there will be just as much pain to be experienced by the man, especially if he is unaware that he got the woman pregnant. He will be made aware of what his unloving act caused, he will meet face to face the result of his actions in spirit, and so as he comes to do his healing, he too will feel the pain he has caused the one who was aborted as well as the pain he caused the woman. And that pain will be the same pain he is causing himself by denying himself his true feelings; the same pain that was caused by his parents denial of him. The amount of pain that was inflicted on you by your parents, is the same amount you then inflict on yourself by maintaining your self- and feeling-denial, and will be the same amount you will inflict on others. However do not judge the amount of that pain by outward actions, and by this I mean, it’s not right to conclude that someone who kills another causing obvious pain to the victim is feeling that amount of pain and so will also suffer accordingly; and more pain than someone who lives their whole live being nice and friendly to others outwardly not causing any suffering of another. One can’t judge ones own pain, the amount of it, or how it has come about, as one can’t judge another’s pain. It is for each person to uncover that pain for themselves. And there will still be a lot of pain for those people who don’t outwardly hurt others, because they are still living denying the truth of their soul - denying their true selves, and so causing themselves the same amount of pain as their parents made them feel. You James didn’t outwardly hurt another, yet inwardly you are ‘killing’ yourself all the time, and so this is the pain you are causing yourself, this being the pain you are experiencing through your healing. It being also the amount of pain your parents made you feel as they ‘killed’ you (the true you) by not allowing you to freely and fully express yourself. And it’s also the amount of pain you are inflicting unconsciously on others in your interactions with people and nature, even though mostly they and you are unaware of it. But Marion is helping you see how you deny her and the pain you cause her in your relationship together, as is your soul helping you feel the pain you are causing nature - and your own true nature.
Okay, I understand that, yes, lot’s of pain, pain every day, always more pain.
And so Mary, the woman who has her pregnancy terminated and the doctor doing it won’t got to hell for punishment of their sins.
No, what determines whether or not someone goes into one of the hell sectors after death is ones intent, that being, did they intend consciously and so wilfully to inflict such pain, harm, suffering and death upon their victim. And if they did, then they will suffer extra pain equivalent to the amount of pain they caused their victim. And I say extra, meaning, on top of all the pain they are already suffering being in their negative state, that pain having to be worked through when they do their feeling- or soul-healing.
So once they’ve worked through their sin or wrongdoing by suffering the extra pain - the pain and suffering they caused their victim to feel, they can then come out of their hell-state, that being the pain they are subjecting themselves to, it all being their own doing as I understand, thereby free to carry on with their spirit mansion world life like everyone else, awaiting the day when their soul begins their true healing, that being of the healing of their negative state.
Yes. And you understand, most women don’t wilfully decide to get pregnant just so they can kill their child by early termination of its life, and most doctors don’t decide to become doctors so they kill foetuses - kill people before they are even born. Such things are all caused by ‘mistake’ - a product of the Default - and so no extra pain will such people be made to suffer. It is enough they are already suffering in their negative state.
And what about suicide, such people wilfully taking their own lives?
Yes, but not as in they are setting out to deliberately kill themselves, and in so doing, deprive themselves of life and so cause themselves great suffering, as if it were another they are wilfully intent on harming. Such people are mostly trying to rid themselves of the unbearable pain of their suffering, the pain of their negative state, the pain of not feeling loved as they needed to be loved, and so take their own lives as a means of trying to stop such awful and tormenting feelings. The taking of their lives being just another, and the most extreme, way of denying their bad feelings. And as part of their self-denial, they will suffer pain for such actions, just as everyone will suffer pain for denying their bad feelings - denying themselves. But it won’t be any more than the pain they are already in, no extra pain, for it’s all still only the pain of their negative state they are inflicting on themselves. Some people however believe that by taking their own lives they are being very bad, and so should be punished accordingly, and so they are allowed to ‘punish’ themselves, or, ‘be punished by God’, if that is what they believe they need to happen so they will be ‘forgiven’. So they are kept aside in their own isolated state until such time as they deem they have paid for their ‘terrible sin’. Other people as you have read, those who don’t feel they should be punished for taking their own life, have woken up and carried on in spirit like all people who die, believing that God understands why they committed suicide and that it was okay that they did. So it has a lot to do with ones beliefs as to how one initially treats themselves upon their arrival in the spirit worlds. But for those people who do need to suffer the pain of their ‘evil deeds’, as in the extra pain that we talked about, that is a separate thing, requiring agonising time spent in the self-created hells that are spoken about.
But isn’t the wilful criminal still only acting on and reacting to his or her own inner pain and torment of their self-denying state.
Yes, that’s true, however once one is an adult, and so wholly responsible for ones actions, then if one does wilfully subject another to ones own will against their will, then that is what incurs the extra pain. In suicide you are only subjecting yourself to yourself, so as it doesn’t involve another, it’s all just part of your self-denying state, of which everyone is required to take full responsibility for as they do their healing.
So our healing is our becoming responsible for our evilness.
Yes. And you do that through pain as you come to see the truth of your unloving-ness; and because you need to feel you have erred - what that feels like, and that it’s wrong being as you are.
So for people who’ve had an, or lots of, abortions, they are going to be able to meet their child or children when they go to spirit.
And how do such people feel and deal with this?
It’s all depends, like everything, on the individual James. Some people are very happy about the idea on both sides, others not so; some apprehensive with rejection issues having to be faced. But overall, it’s a good reunion with a lot of often long-held deep pain finally being able to be expressed when such parents or women see their child is all grown up, living very happily in their spirit life. And for other people, this applying to a lot of men in particular, to be suddenly told you have x number of children, when you’d not given them another thought, or even knew you’d got the woman pregnant and that she had abortion, it can be quite a surprise.
Yes, I can imagine it would stir up all sorts of feelings.
It does James, and if they are bad feelings, most people (now spirits) then set about denying them, whereas for people reading what you are writing James, I would strongly suggest, as we’ve been saying to you, that instead, one might consider embracing bad feelings, welcoming them as yet another opportunity to express them, to speak about all you feel, and all with the intention and strong desire to uncover the truth of why you’re feeling them. This applying equally to your lives now of flesh, and something for you to consider when you become a spirit, if you’ve not already done so.
And Mary, is there a time when the foetus technically dies and so goes into spirit?
Yes James. From the first heartbeat the incarnating person is technically living a physical life, and so if death occurs, it will move into one of the spirit nurseries. If it should ‘die’ before the first heartbeat, the soul merely ‘withdraws’, initiating incarnation when the next opportunity arises for its soul-personality. And of course as you know, there is no reincarnation, so when your soul starts you in Creation and you achieve your first heartbeat, then you’re underway, be it on Earth or in spirit to Paradise, this being your ascension of truth. Only that growth of truth will be somewhat waylaid initially whilst you begin your incarnation in a truth-denying negative state of mind. But eventually as you start to do your healing, you’ll get back on track.
And Mary, what happens to Hannah’s illness?
It ceases to be because it’s only a physical manifestation of the illness of her spirit - of what’s actually going on deeper within her, on her soul level. Physical illnesses don’t have a spiritual counterpart, so she will no longer have her pain or illness. She will however still have within her soul all that’s caused her illness, however because of the differences between the spirit world and the physical, such problems being of a spirit and mental level will not manifest until it’s time for her to start doing her healing, that being, the healing of her negative state. So until that time, she is free to live happily in the mind spirit mansion worlds growing up to becoming a mature adult spirit. And she might be fostered to spirit parents, it all being her decision as to whether she’d want to have a new ‘mummy’ and ‘daddy’; or she might prefer to say with other spirit children being looked after as a group. She’s old enough to make those decisions for herself, and one matures faster in spirit than on the physical.
So spirit life is in some ways more perfect than physical life, all our illnesses and disabilities being removed from us upon our death?
It’s not that it’s more prefect, it’s just that the perfection is different. There are different natural laws that apply to the differing levels of reality. You are familiar with the physical laws, which are perfect in themselves, nature perfectly expressing such physical perfection, which you’d express too where you not so heavily influenced by the Rebellion and Default. And then in spirit on the first mansion world, perfection is expressed that way, and then on the second world, that way, and so on.
But why all the suffering on our world, why do we all have to be so subjected to it all? Why does God allow it, and then even further: why does God want it, it is after all, all God’s doing.
Yes, you are correct in that the Mother and Father have created all that is evil, and want you to experience it, and suffer in it. And as strange as it might seem, this is still all an expression of Their love. You see, for Them to truly unconditionally love us, They have to allow us to rebel and default, and go against Them. And it just so happens, They then, having allowed the Rebellion and Default to occur - having made it happen, have incarnated you into the horror, and have made your lives be as they are, experiencing it. And as to why They have done this, and why They are making you suffer, and why They are subjecting Their children who They love so much to such pain; and why They put you in it, then make you have to do all the hard work to get yourselves out of it, is for you to find out through your healing of your negative and unloving state. You’ll never find out such answers whilst you remain of it, and it’s not for me to tell you the answers because it’s all between you and your Heavenly Mother and Father, all very intimate and very personal, and something you will ONLY ever come to know and live the truth of, by honouring and accepting and seeking the truth of ALL your feelings. It’s through your feelings you have relationships, and so your relationship with your true Soul Parents, and not with your mind as so many people and spirits believe it is. This being something one should be able to work out for oneself through ones own relationships. And as you do seek the truth of yourself through your feelings, the understanding, awareness, appreciation and full acceptance will come to you. And in time, you will know for yourself why God has done it all to you. And believe it or not, but it will in the end, and once you’ve healed yourself of it all, make you feel the love the Mother and Father have for you on a much deeper level, as will your love be felt and expressed far more intensely, truly, and with a great passion. You will know what it feels like to deny yourself and God, this being not what all souls have experienced in the universe. Comparatively, only a minuscule percentage of souls have and will have experienced what it’s like to be evil, by the time the Lucifer Rebellion is no longer in Nebadon. So you are, whether you’re aware of it or not, living a very exceptional and special experience by starting out being thrust into evil, by then becoming of it, and then by waking up to the fact that you are it, and then by choosing to do something about it - heal yourselves of it.
Hannah and her older brother seemed to receive a lot of help from spirit as far as dealing with Hannah’s illness and subsequent death. Hannah told her mother she’d not have her fourth birthday, which was true. How did Hannah know such things?
Presumably, she’d be speaking with spirits who’d be with her during her illness and who’d be welcoming her into her new spirit life, as it seemed she was that way inclined - open to the unseen realms. For a child that’s open to such things, there is little of a distinct boundary between physical and spiritual life. So she’d be told such things, all to help her prepare herself for what was to come. Which, as you and Marion discussed, she could do, ONLY because of how she was parented. It was only because her parents weren’t as controlling as many parents are, allowing their children to be freer to express themselves, could the children live more true to themselves. There is always a huge amount of help on offer from the spirit worlds and the unseen angelic planes. It’s just that mostly because of your beliefs, and mostly religious beliefs, you stop yourselves from having it. Really the physical and spirit have a lot to offer each other, and you are not meant to live separate from one another. Life carries on, you all keep living, and you wake up in spirit as you are, only relived of your physical pain and burdens. So just because you are now of the physical, it’s no big mystery life after death, and certainly nothing to be afraid of.
So we’ve nothing to fear from ghosts?
Ghosts are nothing to fear as they are only people who are now spirits that you can’t see. And they are people, now spirits, that can’t hurt you, whereas of course potentially other people can hurt you. You have the power in your relationship with spirit; there are laws spirits have to abide by, so they can’t interfere with you if you don’t want them to, and if you understand this, then you have nothing at all to fear from them.
So the people who are possessed by a spirit, and the poltergeists that do all those strange things, only happen because people haven’t said no to them.
Yes, because somewhere within them they want such things, even if such a need is based on a negative pattern of self-abuse. And were such people to start to do their feeling-healing and express all their fears whilst seeking to uncover the true causes and reasons as to why they have them, they’d come to see that they believe they should have them, all because of things that happened to them during their forming years.
So spirit life for Hannah is just as life was on Earth?
Yes, in the sense that she’d be able to do all the things she liked doing on Earth, and of course, many other things one can’t do on Earth for one reason or another. So as she said to her brother after she’d died, she was playing baseball, and if she still wanted to go swimming as she used to love to do on Earth, so could do that too.
And would she be free to be with her parents as often as she wanted?
Yes, that all being up to her. She’d be shown how to come into one of the Earth planes so she’d be with her family, she being able to speak to them if they were receptive to her like her brother was, as they too could speak to her, all such speaking being done with their minds - telepathically, like we are James.
And we can all do this, speak with spirits?
Yes. It’s only your beliefs and inclinations that stop you. However those beliefs you understand might be very deep, so it’s not simply a matter of deciding that you want to do it because you understand you can, you’d have to once again do your healing to uncover the reason why you’re not simply naturally doing it. And not everyone might want to do it. Look at you and Marion, you enjoy it, and do it often, whereas Marion feels no need to do it, even though she’s demonstrated she can easily do it.
She has, only she doesn’t believe she can, although we’ve not spoken about it for some years now. And as you say, she’s not interested in doing it anyway, preferring to stay wholly focused on expressing her feelings.
It is part of humanity’s negative condition, that you deny regular contact with spirits as a part of everyday life. You say you love and value your relationships so much, and yet don’t do all you can to keep them going once you’ve died. I know many people would love to, but often such people belong to a religion that doesn’t encourage or openly speak about such things. So you keep living with death as something you greatly fear, with no interaction between you and your loved ones - even including your pets - who have died, can cause you even greater grief and suffering; when the truth is, in time, you’ll all be together again, if that is what you want. You can continue to live with your heads in the sand, or you can start to accept that physical life is only the beginning.