There isn’t an actual place you can go and visit or live in that’s called Hell. There are only the various spirit worlds and spheres, their sectors and planes. However what is generally referred to as being Hell is to be found in the lower two Earth planes, those you can live in before you actually start your mansion world existence.
Hell, as you know is more a state of mind and will, and it comes about because of unloving actions you do to another, such as we were speaking about the other day. If as an adult you wilfully interfere with and hurt another person or creature, then you are incurring the extra pain we spoke of. And this pain must be compensated for under the Law of Compensation as explained in the Padgett Messages. Mostly people hurt other people and nature simply out of ignorance, they don’t actually mean to, or set out to. And often they are not even aware that their actions have caused any suffering, have crossed the line and interfered with another’s will. And all these actions come under the heading of being done by default, which means, because of being in your negative state and being untrue to yourself, all of which you have been made to be by default - it being imposed on you as you were growing up and forming, if you’re not outrightly seeking to hurt another but do, then it’s by default. And so such ‘mild’ transgressions, if I can put it that way, one also has to compensate for, however, they can be done as you continue your life, so as a spirit, as you live on in the mansion worlds. And most of such unloving actions you account for during your healing. So you don’t have to go into any particular - extra - condition in which you pay for such unloving actions. And so you’d not have to go and reside in the hell planes paying off your debt. Your debt being the negative ledger you accrue through all thoughts, words and deeds that transgress the Laws of Will.
But ultimately we all have to balance the books - that’s what you’re saying.
Okay, that being because even though we had no say in it, still we’ve taken it all on, and as adults live it, so we have to at some point take full responsibility for ourselves.
Now in the case of those people who go the next step, that being, wilfully setting out to hurt and harm and cause suffering and pain to another, that is outright rebellion, and it can be done through physical aggression, such as raping and murdering (including murdering a creature), stealing and so on; and it can be done through more devious means such as deceit, financial fraud where the person harmed is not even aware of you who is doing it, that sort of thing, it all depriving someone of how they want to be, completely interfering with their will. So it’s anything you do in which you are wilfully setting out to force someone to live your will, that being, making them do what you want against themselves - against their own will. This is breaking the Golden Rule: that one must always honour another’s will as one honours ones own. And so special, or extra, compensation is required to settle such an account. And to do that, so the sectors and planes within those sectors in the two Earth planes are set aside for you. And you have read those stories of people as spirits living in their own self-imposed hells, greatly suffering for what they have done.
Yes, and mostly they are not aware that it’s a self-imposed suffering.
No, they believe it’s happening to them, that someone else is doing it to them, someone else is depriving them of living how they want to live, or being how they want to be, which is exactly what they did to their victim. And when they have fully ‘paid the price in pain’, they will come to the realisation that in fact it’s not anyone else subjecting them to such pain and torment, confining them to their ‘hell’, it’s all what they are doing to themselves, it all being what they did to someone else. And once that realisation happens, which will take the time for them to feel the same amount of pain they’ve inflicted on another, then they will be released from their prison.
And presumably the type of self-made hell one makes for oneself is based on one beliefs, as to how one should be punished if indeed one is to be punished.
Yes, only mostly the soul and ones indwelling spirit in league with ones guardian angels know what those beliefs are, and so such people (spirits) find they will be subjected to the perfect hell, that being, the one that allows them to feel all the pain they have caused another, all with the objective of helping them finally wake up and come to the realisation that they are doing it all to themselves, it’s all of their own making.
So is it like asking a criminal who has admitted his guilt and truly feels sorry for his actions, to decide what would be the punishment he thought fitting for himself to endure.
Yes, only it’s done unconsciously by the person (spirit) concerned. However if the person does wake up and so feel the guilt of his actions accepting how bad he is, and does want to willingly make amends, then his time in the hells will be suspended, and he will instead find some other self-imposed task through which to exonerate himself. He will set about helping other spirits - human or animals mostly to acclimatise to their new lives in spirit and doing so by ‘putting himself out’, and not just looking to his life in the mansion worlds as one of being completely self-indulgent.
James, you read a story of a spirit who was a butcher, working in a horrific abattoirs when he lived on Earth, one which subjected animals to a lot of cruelty causing them to arrive in the spirit worlds completely panic-struck and full of fear. And there was a spirit (one of many) who was there to receive such suffering animals, to take them and care for them, to love them and give all he had of himself to them so they would feel better, this being this butcher who had woken up to the cruelty he had inflicted on such creatures during his physical life.
Yes, it was a good story, especially to know that the creatures are helped in the end to recover from our mistreatment of them. And Mary, I was thinking, that it does boil down to your intent doesn’t it, as you say, such as if you were drafted to fight in a war and killed people, and as you wouldn’t ordinarily want to kill people, so wouldn’t incur that extra pain.
No, that’s right, you wouldn’t, because for one thing the war is organised with each country defending itself against the aggressor. In such self-defence one won’t incur the extra penalty, unless of course, you step over the line and wilfully want to start causing extra pain on the one you are defending yourself against. And so as it happens with some men in war, once in action they cross that line, wilfully wanting to hurt another, it being more than just having to defend themselves or their country, it being a more deeper personal wilful intention, and this would incur the extra pain. It’s all highly personal, with each and every individual dealt with according to their will and intent of will.
And as you said, even though parents hurt their children, mostly they do it unknowingly, so by default, and so don’t suffer the extra pain, only the pain of healing their negative state when they will wake up to the full horror of what they’ve subjected their child to. Whereas a parent that does hurt their children or other children wilfully, would.
Mary I read a message from a spirit years ago that spoke about there being a very high staircase many newly arrived spirits had to climb, they all being people who were Christians, and all, mostly women, believing they would have to pay for their sins, that being, paying off God’s judgement of them before they could enter Paradise, or the Pearly Gates. And the spirit saying such things was showing another spirit these steps that seemed endless in number, with all these spirits dragging themselves up step by step trying to reach the top. And they were suffering untold misery and agony, all of which they believed they had to suffer, all to make them pure. And the spirit telling the other spirit, then said, and look over here, here are other spirits arriving into spirit and instantly free to carry on with their lives in the spirit worlds, not having to subject themselves to such horrors just to gain entry. And it was all a belief, these women spirits just believed they were bad and have sinned and should suffer by climbing this endless staircase until they’d appeased their angry God.
Yes James, that sort of thing still exists if newly arriving spirits believe they have to ‘do time’ or penance of some sort before God will accept their unclean bodies, their unclean self or unclean soul. These things are set up by the spirits who understand these other spirits need to do such things all in accordance with their beliefs.
So you put yourself through all sorts of agony just to begin your new spirit life, when you don’t have to do anything, that life just being naturally given to you.
Yes, all because you believe you will not be worthy unless you undergo some sort of harsh trial, and pass it.
Yes, I remember reading there were a lot of those spirits almost at the top, but then they seemed to slip back down, having to start out all over again, obviously believing they’d not past the test.
And the sad part of it all is that it’s all something they are doing in their own minds to themselves, it having nothing to do with any of the healing we’ve been talking about.
So they are putting themselves through it all for nothing.
And I suppose everything we do to ourselves in the belief we’re helping ourselves and making our lives better are the same sorts of things.
Yes James, everything. Nothing anyone does, unless they are working on themselves to uncover the truth of their actions through their feelings, is actually helping their souls progression of truth. It’s all helping them further deny themselves and so advance their evilness.
It’s all very depressing.
More bad feelings for you to express and uncover the truth of James.
What you are to understand James is that you’re already in hell, the hell of your own making, which really is the hell your parents and early carers made for you to accept as being right - the right way for you to live. And all you do to another that crosses the line making them feel bad you are already doing to yourself. And so the pain is there to help you see this truth, for really you should only feel pain when you go against yourself. And so if you hurt another, then you’d only be doing so because you were actually hurting yourself in some inner way, and by rights you should feel instant pain, you should feel bad, both for hurting yourself and for hurting the other person. So if your hurt another person yet don’t feel bad, then you are very disconnected from your true self, for you should really be feeling the pain in you that is driving you to hurt the other person or creature. And so what I am helping you to see is that you are in a bad way, it’s been done, and you can’t change it using your mind. So all you can do is look to your bad feelings because they will make you feel pain - the pain being the bad feeling you are feeling, and so use this pain, the bad feeling, to look deeper into yourself to uncover the truth of what you are really doing to yourself that’s hurting you. And this will lead you to see the truth of what was initially done to you to hurt you, and how you’ve been made to wrongly believe this is good for you and the right way to live, and how you’ve then taken it all on. How you’ve been turned against yourself, making yourself believe you are being kind and caring and loving to yourself, when in fact you are hating and hurting yourself and being the very opposite. So you are in prison, you are quarantined in your isolated false self, living in your own little fantasy world pretending you are all right, when you are not, and far from being all right.
And that personal state of ours is reflected in what The Urantia Book means by saying Earth is currently quarantined being kept separate from the rest of true Creation.
Yes, Earth, your lives, are your own living hell - literally. So when you move to live in the ‘Hells’, it’s only in the more extreme part of yourself based on your actions. And the pity is that many spirits having ‘done their time’ then believe there is no longer anything wrong with them, in which they couldn’t be more wrong, for doing their time of self-imprisonment has done nothing so far as helping them actually heal any of their negative state. That still awaits them, with all they’ve been through, their harmful actions brought to bear on another and their redemption from such unloving acts, being just a part of, or a subset if you like, of their overall negative condition. So many of them get a big shock when their soul starts to wake them up to their evilness, and they start to feel many familiar bad feelings again, when they thought it was all over and done with.
But Mary, these people and spirits are only doing such heinous crimes because they are in such a bad state, in such a fucked-up way, worse than most of us who just bumble along in our unconscious default states. So why do they have to suffer seemingly twice as harsh a life.
It’s all part of their soul plan James. And one can’t judge it. It is as it is for very good reasons to do with the person themselves and their growth of truth. There are compensations for them having such, what you might say, a raw deal, and many of them are more susceptible to doing their healing and embracing the Divine Love compared to the many other spirits who just ignorantly carry on in their negative truth-denying ways in the mansion worlds for a long time preventing themselves all opportunities to wake up and start to see the truth of themselves.
And what about say a criminal who spends the greater part of his life incarcerated during his life on Earth, does this time go towards contributing to lessening his time in the hell planes should he be required to still go into them.
It can do, it all depends on the person themselves. Some people can pay for all their crime during their earth imprisonment, fully redeeming themselves and coming to terms with the extent of their crime and the pain they have caused their victim. And yet for other people, as you know, time in your prisons only exacerbates or can even turn mild criminals into more wilful ones, into people who will only make things much worse for themselves when they are released. You don’t understand why people commit crimes in the first place; you don’t understand about your negative states; and you don’t understand what crossing the line truly means concerning yours and another’s will, nor the harsh universal laws imposed on such will infringement. Your prisons and imposed sentences are only based on and subjected to your self-made laws and all within your negative states. So like everything you do, none of it is based on truth, or sets out to genuinely help and care about the deeper issues and problems that would drive someone to deprive another of their freedom of will.
But still, no one gets away with it.
No, all you do and say and think is recorded, and if any of it, even your fantasies, go against the Laws of Will, then you will suffer accordingly.
So even if I fantasise say about having my way, nicely mind you, over a woman in a sexual fantasy, they I am still transgressing and have to pay.
Yes James, all your sexual fantasies that you’ve done so as to try and make yourself feel better, have all been going against the laws of truth; and so yes, like everything else you do in your every waking moment in your negative life, has to be compensated for. And that’s why you’ve spent all these years in so much pain, looking to your bad feelings to help you uncover the truth of why you feel so bad, there’s a lot of will transgression you’ve done in your short life. So naturally you’re healing is going to take a long time. But it’s not that you have to necessarily go systematically back through every bad thing you’ve done or thought and see it for what it was, it’s all done on a circuit by circuit basis, so as you move through a level of truth, that which you are to see through your feelings, then you feel all the pain of the associated negative or wrong beliefs and behaviours you’ve lived and how such things have affected yourself and other people, nature and God. And gradually, as you work your way up the levels within yourself becoming progressively more aware of the truth of your evilness, so you change such patterns, letting go the bad beliefs, changing your behaviour, and so feeling differently about yourself, other people, nature and God. And once you complete your healing, then there will be no more pain for your will shall be fully and truly aligned with the Will of God, that being the natural laws of the universe and Creation, and you will have changed being able to look back on what will seem like your old life, that one of being evil and feeling bad.
I’m looking forward to that Mary.
It’s coming James.
Thank You Mary.